For Wednesday: Austen, Pride and Prejudice, Vol.1, Ch.17 to Vol. 2, Chapter 3


Answer TWO of the following...

1. Why does Elizabeth refuse Mr. Collins’ offer of marriage, despite the great benefit it would be to her family (especially since he will one day own their house)?  On the same hand, why does Charlotte Lucas agree to accept him?   How might this rejection/acceptance be a commentary on the state of women and marriage in the early 19th century? 

2. Though Elizabeth dislikes Darcy on ‘first impression,’ she is immediately taken with Wickham.  What qualities does Wickham have that plays into Elizabeth’s sensibilities of an “agreeable” man?  How might this also play into Elizabeth’s prejudices against Darcy?  In other words, what makes Darcy the so-called 'bad guy' and Wickham the 'good guy' on a first impression?  

3. Though chiefly about love and marriage, Pride and Prejudice is also about the friendships between women, whether sisters or close friends.  After Charlotte’s marriage, Elizabeth reflects that “no real confidence could ever subsist between them again” (87).  How might marriage impair the formerly close relationships between women, isolating them from their friends and family?  How specifically might this work in Charlotte Lucas’ case? 


4. Mr. Collins is one of Jane Austen’s great satirical portraits, which is clear from the moment he appears on the page.  How does Austen use him to satirize the conventions or pretensions of her time?  What ‘mistakes’ does he make throughout these chapters, and what does he understand—or misunderstand—about women?  (to make this more interesting, you might consider that Jane Austen was once proposed to by a country parson; she declined).  

Comments

  1. Kendall Dobbs:
    1. Elizabeth has multiple reasons for not wanting to marry Mr. Collins. But the reason that she gives Mr. Collins (on page 82) is: “You could not make me happy, and I am convinced that I am the last woman in the world who would make you so …” Elizabeth knows that a lifetime with Mr. Collins would be miserable. My favorite moment of this whole scene is when Elizabeth’s father basically says that if she chooses to marry Mr. Collins, he will never talk to her again! I find it hysterical how he totally ignores his wife’s opinion. Charlotte Lucas doesn’t have any high hopes of marrying someone for love. She realizes that the cards are not in her favor (age, beauty, money, etc). I believe that while Elizabeth totally ignored the benefit the marriage would be to the Bennett family, Charlotte sees the benefit it would be for her family and acts on it. I think the acceptance of marriage shows the mindset of most women of the 19th century. It was about security and a nice home, not love. Elizabeth is definitely going against the status quo.
    2. Charm. Wickham knows how to woo the ladies. I think that his lack of money (compared to Mr. Darcy) helps him seem less arrogant, which is a key characteristic that Elizabeth hates in Mr. Darcy. If she finds Wickham ‘agreeable’ then it is obvious that Mr. Darcy is the opposite, which would lead to her disliking him more and more when comparing the two. Wickham could be seen as the ‘good guy’ because he is open and “honest” with Elizabeth. He seems to be forthcoming and not afraid to be vulnerable in sharing his past. But Mr. Darcy, on the other hand, is like a vault and will hardly speak at all. The ability to make conversation seems to be an attribute that Elizabeth greatly admires.

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  2. Josh Coats

    1. She refused to marry him because she didn't love him. Period. She even said "I am determined that nothing but the very deepest love will induce me into matrimony." To me, this said it all. Charlotte agrees to marry Mr. Collins because she's almost thirty and not married...she might not get the offer of marriage ever again in her "old" years. She knows he can offer her a stable future and provide all that she needs.

    2. Elizabeth first viewed Darcy as being arrogant and totally thoughtless of others. Early in the book, she overhears Darcy say about her that she is "tolerable but not enough to tempt him." It's obvious why he's viewed as a "a bad guy." Wickham is viewed as having a "most gentlemanlike appearance." He was charming and attractive; how could she resist him?

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  3. Stefan Schodlbauer
    1)Elizabeth did not want to marry Mr Collins because of several things that made her not 100% confortable. One, for me the most important reason for Elizabeth to refuse the marriage was that the men was not so rich, so this would not assured a good future with him. Also, he was not so handsome,obsequious, pompous, and lacks in common sense. Finally, the one that marries with Mr Collins is Elizabeth's friends called: Charlotte Lucas.
    2)In that time, every single mother wanted to get a good husband for their ladies. Mr Darcy was a good option because he was handsome and very rich (the most important characteristic for men in that time). Wickham was a different kind of person, he was more poor, honest, agreeable, and not so arrogant. Elizabeth, from my point of view was different from the other ladies because she did not desperate when in a ball they had a rich and handsome men. She was intelligent enough and that characteristic made her different from the others.

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  4. Aimee Elmore

    1.) The reason I think Elizabeth declined Mr. Collins is because he is awkward and he follows what Lady Cathrine de Bourgh no matter what. Elizabeth isn't like that. She likes to speak her mind and do what she pleases. The reason I think Charlotte said yes was because she is getting to the age where getting married is hard to do. So she thought she probably wouldn't get another offer. She was promised a comfortable home and food on the table so she took the offer.

    2.) Mr. Darcy, when we first met him, was rude and not likable. He stayed to himself and he didn't have anything nice to say about the people in town. Mr. Wickham was very nice to everyone and he even had a tragic story to tell. In his story he made MR. Darcy seem like a bad guy. Mr. Wickham's first impression was much better than Darcy's. That is why Elizabeth likes him better at first.

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  5. Shannon Southwell
    1) Elizabeth rejects Mr. Collins marriage proposal because she doesn't want a marriage just for the sake of a status. She either wants a marriage based on love or no marriage at all. While charlotte is more like the other ladies she wants a marriage for rhe sake of a status. Charlotte sees that he is the ideal guy for the 'job' he has a job, a little bit of money, and wants a wife.

    2) Wickham seems to know what to say to make Elizabeth believe him.Elizabeth has such a hard time figuring out Darcy and he gets under her skin, so I think that when Wickham starts talking bad about Darcy, it makes Elizabeth believe that she is starting to figure out darcy. With Wickham telling Elizabeth all of that it seema to me that it makes Elizabeth believe she can read Wickham.

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  6. 3. My understanding is that at this point, once joined in marriage, a woman typically relinquished her ability to express herself as an individual, particularly in the way she would with a close friend. As opposed to being "Charlotte," friend and daughter, she becomes "Mrs. Collins," wife. On page 96, it seems that Charlotte has reached a goal Elizabeth was not aware of, and Charlotte's "steady countenance," "momentary confusion...on receiving so direct a reproach," and her ability to easily regain her composure all signal the beginning of a comfortable, passive life. It's as if she's turning off the human Charlotte and booting up the robot Mrs. Collins. Elizabeth is shocked that Charlotte "would have sacrificed every better feeling to worldly advantage" (96), implying that marrying for such reasons is a sort of perversion of matrimony, also explaining why she denies Collins, yet is open to the attentions of men she might enjoy, like Wickham.

    4. Mr. Collins makes the very ungentlemanly mistakes of talking too much, especially about himself and his Lady Catherine, and navigates matters involving gender with absolutely no tact. My favorite moment comes after Elizabeth's first refusal of Collin's proposal: she attempts to convince him that despite his belief that she will eventually give in, she has no intention of having him, and goes so far as to inform him that, "In making me the offer, you must have satisfied the delicacy of your feelings with regard to my family, and may take possession of Longbourn estate whenever it falls, with out any self-reproach. This matter may be considered, therefore, as finally settled" (82-83). When she assumes authority and gives him the business, Collins goes into a tailspin and resorts to cutting her down in what he feels to be most a most personal offense to a lady. However Elizabeth has just robbed him of whatever power (and dignity) he had left and he is forced to retreat into his cave of idiocy.

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  7. Paul Sandy
    1) I can think of a couple of reasons she declined. One of them being that she had her eye on Whickham at the moment. The other, and more importantly, was she simply was not interested with him and, in fact,even later questioned how Charlotte was able to be married to him. Evidence of her early dismissal of her cousin was at the ball when she realized she was being courted by him and immediately realizes that her refusal will be a point of conflict in her family's home. With this realization, she simply opted to put it out of mind until such time he actually did ask. The implications involving the estate would certainly give cause for consideration. I particularly enjoyed the scene after her ignored protests to Mr. Collins and her mother was trying to change this outcome, even to the point of enlisting her husband. When Mr. bennet supported his daughter's decision I laughed a little audibly.
    Charlotte saw the opportunitty for her to attain what she was brought up to desire. Being from a large family, she seized the chance to secure for herself a stable future. And by the parent Lucas' behavior, Charlotte had obtained some security and future for them in the way of the Bennet's estate.

    3) Charlotte may have found her husband at the cost , like many women of her time , of her family as she moved away and was no longer nearby. Elizabeth was able to illustrate the ability for them to overcome many barriers to retain ther acquainance. I don't feel that was common in her day, especially by people of lessr means who could n't even travel to see those they sepaerate from and leave behind due to the financial cost.

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  8. Weston Haynes
    1.) It is easy to tell in the first part of this book, that Elizabeth is not intrigued or attracted to Mr. Collins. Though it is a standard at this particular time to marry men who you are not attracted to or was forced to, Elizabeth feels that she doesn't have to be that way. She does not agree with marrying Mr. Collins because she feels she would be bored to death and miserable. Despite a guaranteed good fortune if she married Mr. Collins, she focuses more on love and not what her parents think or the riches. All the riches in the world would not matter if you are not happy and I think Elizabeth is trying to send that message. They are also not compatible. Mr. Collins is reserved, boring, listens to what Catherine De Bourgh says, and cares what people think of him, whereas Elizabeth speaks her mind, doesn't care what people thinks, and is not the typical woman of the 18th century. Charlotte sees a certain future with Mr. Collins. She knows he has money, and shes feels that she is at least guaranteed a roof over her head and security. She played it "safe".
    2.) Elizabeth and Mr. Wickham are both very different from the standard men and women of their time. They are both outspoken, and Mr. Wickham is way more outspoken than Mr. Darcy. He is not snotty, and seems to have a good heart. Elizabeth can read him more than she can read Mr. Darcy, which makes him more appealing to the eye. Mr. Wickham is an open book, and I think Elizabeth sees him as an honest man and has all the cards on the table. They are both different, and for Elizabeth, different is "good".

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  9. Summer Junek
    1) While in those times it may have been nessecary to marry simply because of fortune or for the sake or hiars or inheritance for the children to come, A woman see to it that her future children live not in poverty. Elizabeth does not have this in mind as her mother does. Mr. Collins is suited for this and that only. She sees no attractive attributes, including the fortune he stands to inherit. Mr. Collins has no class only to brag of nonsense according Elizabeth.

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  10. (1) Elizabeth refuses Mr. Collins offer of marriage because she isn't in love with him and thinks him a little annoying. She says that the only reason she will marry is for love. Charlotte accepts him because getting a husband is her goal. It doesn't matter to Charlotte that she doesn't love him. As far as the rejecting/accepting, what wasn't good for Elizabeth was good for Charlotte.
    (2) Elizabeth's first impressions of Darcy and Wickman were very different. She thought Darcy to be arrogant, over-confidant, and rude. However, Wickman was friendly, considerate, and had good manners. The story that Wickman tells Elizabeth about Darcy confirms to her that Darcy is the bad guy.
    Stephanie Callen

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  11. Stormee Chestra
    1. She denies it , because how he goes about it. He is really rude about it and basically says that she is nothing and it would be in her great honor if she accepted it.

    3. Because in this day of age when a woman is joined in marriage they basically give up their individual rights and live to serve their husbands for the rest of their life.

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  12. Walter Braxton Reeves

    1)Elizabeth denied Mr. Collins proposal of marriage, because he honestly is a clown who isn't marrying for Love. Mr. Collins is just looking for a wife. Any wife will do for him honestly. Which is why he proposed to her sister Charlotte not too long after. And she accepted, because unlike Lizzy, she isn't marrying for love, just like Mr. Collins, any companion will do for her.

    2) Wickham immediately victimizes himself, and creates a pitty party so that Elizabeth feels sorry for him. Nevertheless, while he was doing this, at the same time, he was basically "throwing Mr. Darcy under the bus". Telling Elizabeth the Mr. Darcy ruined his life and made him become a soldier, after he wanted to pursue being a preacher. This would make anyone have bad feelings towards Mr. Darcy.

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  13. Cristian C.Nazario Cruz
    1. Elizabeth didn’t want to marry Mr. Collins because she doesn’t love him. She want a marriage with someone who she will love, Elizabeth don’t want to marry just for a good economic status. Charlotte doesn’t care about love she was more like other girls, Charlotte was more worry about her economic status then about her feelings.

    2. The fist impression of Elizabeth from Darcy was bad, because he look rude, arrogant and he said Elizabeth was tolerable but not enough to tempt him. Mr. Wickham’s was very nice to everyone. Wickham’s start talking bad about Darcy, it make Elizabeth believe Wickham’s look like the good guy and Darcy like the bad guy.

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